MacRaven - Dave Haxton's Weblog

Thu, 13 Apr 2006

Heathens are a pretty diverse group - it's often said that if you ask five heathens for their take on a particular subject, you'll get six opinions! Nevertheless, some of the attitudes shown by a few of my fellow heathens never cease to amaze me. And the most amazing of all is an extreme reticence towards "Christian-bashing".

On a certain level, I can understand this fully, and indeed try very hard not to bash Christians. Some of my best friends follow the Desert God, and they're all fine individuals. However (you knew that was coming, didn't you?)...

This does not mean that I cannot critique their theology. They show absolutely no hesitation in critiquing mine, nor do I expect them to. Yet some heathens resolutely equate any negative mention of Christian theology as "bashing on Christians", and loudly and roundly condemn it.

This is lunacy: an attack on an idea is not an attack on an individual or even a group of individuals who espouse it, it's an attack on an idea. I can attack communism as an ideology of State sanctioned murder without believing that every communist is a murderer, and I can certainly point to what I see as the flaws in Christian theology without believing that every Christian is a complete idiot or overtly evil. I can blast Christian leaders when they speak with authority on the subject of theology without implying that their followers are equally culpable.

Being unable to distinguish between attacks on Christianity and attacks on Christians seems to be quite a problem in the heathen and neo-pagan communities: perhaps it's because we're such tiny minorities and we're afraid of bringing the wrath of the majority down on our heads. But I don't think so - I think that we're just too damned nice and too blasted tolerant.

Christians seem to have no problem blasting our theology: you'll never hear an orthodox Christian say that our path is an alternate road to their Heaven. They will always loudly (and often too pompously) proclaim their love for us sinners while at the same time telling us we're little deluded dupes following an evil desert god they call Satan. And while some of the more obnoxious of their leaders do sometimes mount personal attacks on non-believers, in general I think Christians feel they can attack our theology without attacking us personally. And they're right.

What brought all this to the fore for me was the posting of an essay called On Easter by Edwin Kagan to a Heathen message board. Mr. Kagan is a pretty fiery atheist, and his essay is certainly not for the faint of heart theologically. Nonetheless it constitutes criticism of the Christian theological underpinnings of the Spring Festival, and as such, is a contribution to the debate on it's validity and the place of heathenry in relation to it.

The posting of this message to the board brought instant howls of protest: "I've never been a Christian and don't care what they believe. This has no relevance here.", "Why do we feel we have to bash Christians to be Heathens?", and most amazingly of all "I'm a Heathen, but that doesn't mean I'm anti-Christian."

Here is my response to the list:

I'm having a tough time understanding what some folks on this list are finding offensive about this.

I saw no personal attacks on individual Christians in the piece, in fact, I saw no attacks on Christians as people at all. What I saw was a blistering attack on Christian theology. A theology, need I remind the list, that considers each of us "unsaved" at best and "Satanic" at worst. An utterly intolerant theology that mocks our gods as "demons" and our priests as "servants of evil".

These folks don't do the "all gods are one" bit, or the "all people are good" trip. It's their way or the highway, so to speak, and they consider that the highway leads to eternal torment. Ours.

If you've not experienced attacks on your religion from Christianity, then I daresay you've not been very open about your faith. Or you've not been reading the papers or watching the telly. Perhaps it's a regional thing (I'm in the Midwest), but from what I see in the media, I would doubt that proposition.

If you don't care what Christians believe, as you see no relevance to your life, then I may I be so bold as to suggest that you wake up and smell the coffee. They are the dominant religious force in our Western culture, and they're becoming increasingly active in the political arena as well. Most affirm (falsely) that the US was founded as a "Christian nation", some openly espouse a theocratic State. If we are unable to proclaim our resistance to their theological claims, how will we defend ourselves politically when those claims make inroads into our schools and governments?

Interestingly enough, their gospels speak of "turning the other cheek" when attacked - so the bit of fiery polemic in question shouldn't bother them in the least. On the other hand, I see nothing in our lore that demands we "turn the other cheek". And I, for one, will not.

I'm sick of being attacked on a daily basis in the Christian media, on Christian message boards and even by door to door God salesmen as being the very essence of evil in Midgard. I want to thank my friend for posting this: it is indeed another arrow in my quiver to repel the attacks on the honor of the gods and goddesses that I hold dear, even if it was written by an avowed atheist. In fact, I would go so far as to say that most atheists I've met disbelieve in the Christian god because of the inherent contradictions of their "revealed scriptures", and have no idea that the ancient ways are still a viable (and much more rational) spiritual path available to the modern world.

If I cannot respond to Christian attacks on a private message board devoted to folks who ostensibly follow the same gods as I (and not the slave holding god from the desert), then where can I respond? Should I simply stay silent, even among my peers, as my grandchildren are harassed and attacked as "unbelievers"? Have we nothing to say about Christianity?

I daresay that Eyvind Kinrifa had a thing or two to say on the subject, and it cost him his life. As it did many others in eldritch days - we have a long and sad list of martyrs ourselves preserved in the Heimskringla and other bits of lore, and undoubtedly many more who lost their lives in silence. Have the spiritual inheritors of these heroes become such wimpy wusses that we refuse out of fear of giving offense to defend ourselves or even answer our attackers?

I hope not.

/Asatru | 6 writebacks | permanent link

On 4/14/2006 11:41:17
Arwin wrote

A good yarn

Have you read any of the Dan Brown books? I am currently reading "The Da Vinci Code." A good yarn if not the best written fiction. I don't know how much of the heathen/pagan stuff in the book is correct, not being a heathen or pagan. If his background is correct I would think a heathen or pagan might enjoy this book.

On 4/14/2006 13:22:55
Thud wrote

http://www.thudfactor.com

A couple of points: firstly, there are quite a few Christians with a pluralistic impulse. They don't all think we're on the road to hell. The problem is that, for the most part, such Christians also think religion is a relatively private and personal affair, and don't speak up publicly. Secondly, I think the reason a lot of pagans react negatively to discussions of Christianity in "pagan space" like message boards, etc., is precisely _because_ they're surrounded by Christians and Christian symbols so much. A discussion about Christianity v. Paganism can quickly take over a message board, and suddenly there's one less place you can go to get away from it.

On 4/14/2006 15:36:46
AThada wrote

good sensible discussion

(this is the college student who drops by from time to time) Dave - I like the way your thoughts develop, as far as moving beyond bashing, critiquing theology, etc. My beef, as a follower of Christ, are people who still claim that America is a Christian nation or that "Christians" still dominate the political sphere. I'm feeling less and less comfortable with the label "Christian" for two reasons. 1) Statistics show that "Christians" pretty much live no differently than others when it comes to divorce, racism, material lifestyle, etc. Most of American Christianity is a lip service to the supernatural while living 99% in the technological world, accepting the material / spiritual split of modern man. 2) "Christian" is being defined politically, esp. as anti-abortion and anti-gay (two things Jesus never mentioned), and that's about it. Apparently being a war-monger and neglecting the poor aren't spiritual problems, just political. For this reason I'm coming to consider most of American Christianity as a lingering cultural phenomenon, not a spiritual committment. I'm just getting introduced to the pagan world, so keep up the discussion. (BTW: Do you say "pagan" in jest because you live in a "Christian" culture, or do you use it as an acceptable label within pagandom, from one to another?)

On 4/14/2006 15:38:37
Dave H wrote

Pluralistic Christians

Well, you're kinda right on your first point: there are a great many people who self-identify as "Christians" who do have a much broader view of spirituality than the is offered by the Bible. I would, however, submit that those folks are only nominal Christians, and one reason they're so quiet is that they cannot win arguments within their own community based on their heterodox reading of their scriptures. Unitarian Universalists, Unity and other smaller flavors of Christianity fall into this camp. And frankly, their definition and practice of Christianity bears little or no resemblance to orthodox Christianity as thought of by the modern American "man on the street", much less mainstream Christian leaders. Your second point is well taken: indeed we can collapse into a morass of "The Christians did such and such" and rapidly lose sight of our own evolving spirituality. This has happened before, probably since the first two self-identifying "neo-pagans" got together to celebrate a season. But we cannot, we must not, let our fear of having every aspect of our lives descend into this pit of criticism prevent us from offering a cogent and alternative view. And that requires a full understanding of the theological implications of an orthodox Christian faith - which way too many of us seem to lack. And, in truth, this particular message board has not had many such "Christian bashing" postings in the recent past, and those few that show up are almost immediately shouted down from the peanut gallery. There's no doubt it's a touchy issue and a fine line we must walk. But walk it we must! Thanks for the comment and Be well, Dave H. BTW: You have a fine blog yourself - and I've added it to the blogroll as of today!

On 4/15/2006 11:23:53
Dave H wrote

Sense and Sensibility

Hi Adam: Glad you stopped by! I try to avoid theological discussions with customers (for obvious reasons) but I'll take my chances here! I'm still selling out of eggs pretty regularly, so I suppose I can afford it! ;>) First to you question on the use of the term "pagan". Technically a "pagan" is a follower of any non-Abrahamic religion, with Judaism, Christianity and Islam being the Abrahamic religions. I use the term in that sense very rarely. "Pagan" is derived from Latin <i>paganos</i>, or "dweller in the countryside". I refer to myself as a Heathen, which is an Old English word meaning "dweller on the heath (countryside)" - essentially the same as the Latin, but with a more Germanic flavor, reflecting my pantheon and my ancestry. As a Heathen, I follow the ancient gods of the North, the gods my ancestors followed for countless millenia before the coming of Christianity to Northern Europe. These are the denizens of Norse mythology. I use "Pagan" or sometimes "neo-Pagan" as a catch-all term to refer to the myriad of reconstructionist religions that are popping up like dandelions all over the western world, and I include Wicca in this even though it's not strictly a reconstruction of anything. Hope that's clear as mud - now, on to your other comments.. You're dead on about most of American Christianity being a lingering cultural phenomena. Most American Christians have no real idea of what their scripture teaches, depending on the (highly) selective homilies delivered weekly from their pulpits. I was raised, strange as it might sound, as a "Catholic fundamentalist" - dad was a lapsed Catholic and Mom was (and is) a fundy Baptist. I got the worst of both worlds, so to speak. But I did read the Bible front to back, several times, in fact, and at one time considered seminary as a vocation. It was my reading of scripture that convinced me of the underlying fraudulence of the Christian faith, for many of the same reasons pointed out by Mr. Kagan in the essay referenced in the original post. However, the final straw for me came in October of 1975, when I was acting as an interpreter for Vietnamese refugees at Fort Indiantown Gap, PA. There was a young Vietnamese girl who had been horribly burned in the last days of the war, and who had barely survived the trip with her family to the US. They were Catholic, and when it became obvious that her injuries were going to overwhelm her, I was called in to interpret for the priest. He asked me to reassure the family that "And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." (Romans 8:28) This was my moment of spiritual truth: how could I possibly tell this torn family, who had just lost their country, their lives and everything they owned, and now were about to lose their only child, this bit of what suddenly appeared as Pollyanna-dish nonsense? This would not "comfort" them - this would merely tell them that they and their lives were mere pawns in a great game played by an ultimately unknowable and incomprehensible deity. This was blasphemous: against the very nature of the world and humankind itself. If we were to be mere puppets, I resolved at that moment to cut the strings. I could not translate the words. I refused - and I lost my job and my Christian faith for good. The tale of my wandering in the spiritual wilderness and my arrival home in Midgard is a tale best saved for another time. But this should give you a hint about why I urge Christians to read the Bible - to think about it and to try to understand it. Because I believe that the truth really is in there, just not the truth Christianity would have you believe. Be well, Dave H.

On 4/18/2006 16:58:48
Adam Thada wrote

Thanks for the clarification Dave. And no, you didn't lose my business, periodic though it is :)

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MacRaven
Dave Haxton's Weblog
Musings, Reflections, Rants and Comments from a Hoosier Heathen husband, father, grandfather, farmer and software engineer. There's really only one of me ...

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